EKKENTROS FORUM
The Matter: Report of the proceedings of the discussion held on 10-11-09 (Tuesday)
Venue: Residence of Prof. P.M.Sankarankutty, Green Hills, Temple Gate, Tellicherry-670103
Coram: Seven members attended. Prof. Hay and Sri. T. Bhaskaran could not attend as they are out of station to the Gulf.
Subject: Facts in Unbiased Free Thinking.
Dr. Md. Abdulla: In our discussions we have now reached a point where the question to be tackled is whether any unbiased thinking is at all possible for human beings. While caught in the worldly affairs, every individual faces problems and agonies of different kinds and intensities. The practical reaction to search for a solution in such circumstances has been to seek God Almighty’s assistance. While praying the problem seems to become lighter, but when we come out of the prayers the problem returns. This would make it clear that we are unable to hold on to “Bhakthi Bhava” or the devotional attitude. We are able to experience the emotion of devotion only fleetingly.
The secret of leading a life where problems do not affect us is therefore to learn to sustain the devotional attitude or in other words, to maintain the purity of the mind. All religious texts give us the advice to reach that goal by continuous devotion and prayers. In short Purity of the Mind is the prerequisite for unbiased free thinking, and devotion or Bhakthi is the simplest way to attain and sustain it. And they have to be realized in one’s inner self as an experience of God’s all pervading Truth. That results in a state of absolute humility.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: What is actually purity of mind? Is it a mind without any feeling of doing wrong or a feeling of guilt? I think doing wrong is a mental concept. One feels that he has done wrong.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: A person has an idea that killing is wrong. He has been brought up to think so. But killing an enemy soldier in battle is not wrong. Yet killing a stray dog is sin.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: There is no sin except the mental concept of guilt. It is the conditioning of the mind which brings about the feeling of guilt.
Dr.Thomas: For the Jains, even inadvertent killing of insects is sin, and they really feel guilty for the death of tiny insects caused by their breathing. They are supposed to go around covering their mouth and nose to avoid that. Many of them follow that practice even now. Similarly among hunters there were certain codes to be followed to avoid committing sin. Animals should not be killed while they drink water from their water holes. Neither pregnant animal or a couple in mating should be killed. Once these are in their mind they naturally feel guilty when they go against the codes.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: Each person’s thinking is based on the way he is brought up. It is based on past experience and is limited by his experience. And there are certain rules of society that everybody has to follow in order to keep harmony among its members. The concept of sin comes from that. Any violation of the standards brings a feeling of guilt or sin. All sins are the manifestations of the feelings of the mind. But you can, of course be emotionless like saints and then you may be free of guilt. One is afraid of ghosts as he has been told stories and experiences relating to them. Imagination takes over and he is afraid. But if you analyze the mechanism of the process in the mind, the fear disappears and the person becomes calm. Certain amount of intuitive analysis is required. If the imagination goes uncontrolled, fantasy takes over resulting in psychosis etc. It is an aberration of the mind.
In a situation of unbiased thinking or comment, one’s previous knowledge or preconceived ideas should not interfere.
Dr. Abdulla : Only a pure mind can have balanced thoughts. That is why I say that purity of mind is essential for unbiased thinking.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: One must be able to understand that external things and extraneous matters always come up and interfere with free thinking. In one is aware of that then free thinking will be possible.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: Yes. If I am aware that I have my prejudices and my past experience is continuously interfering with my thoughts it makes a difference. I can think with an open mind and think freely. Free thinking is thus possible.
Dr. Abdulla: My past experience and my opinion need not be always wrong. If you are pure at heart you can be absolutely correct and you can insist that your opinion is correct. There, one is sure of one’s opinion. A man who is pure at heart can make a good and correct decision.
Dr. Sadanandan: Conscience is built upon so many factors. Past experiences, Rules and codes, ideas of right and wrong, religious beliefs, etc. etc.
DR. Abdulla: One must be prepared to hear others’ points of view also for the thinking to be free.
Dr. Sadanandan: But we act on our conditioning. We are patriotic and love our country intensely. Therefore we kill, and killing becomes thus right. But basically where is the enemy? He also is patriotic and loves his country. Countries are mere border outlines, and a person born on the other side cannot become automatically an enemy. Ultimately there is no enemy. I believe that no human being should kill another human being. I may not be patriotic and I may be persecuted as a traitor. But I am right. I act according to what my conscience tells me is Truth.
That is free thinking. But we act on our conditioning. We act on the basis what we are told by others to be patriotism. The thinking itself is biased.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: Who was it that died in prison taking Hemloc? Yes, Socrates died for the Truth that he was sure of. Unbiased thinking has its consequences when one acts accordingly.
Dr. Sankarankutty. Bernard Shaw said that we act on a state of conditioning, not on realization.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: I cannot be said to be biased if I am aware of my conditioning and prejudices, and am willing to understand others and to change my opinion if I am wrong.
Dr. Md. Abdulla: The one great character I admire as absolutely unbiased, is Mahatma Gandhi who truly lived in Truth.
Dr. Thomas. In the events of the world, right action or wrong action is said to be known only long after the events are over. Therefore it is only from history correct action can be judges, known and studied. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are being judged now on the basis of the results of their actions. They were both sure of the correctness of their ideas and theories in their time. They had no doubts. But their actions created great miseries in the world and they are being judged now accordingly. Trotsky was different. He was more flexible in his thoughts and was a liberal. Therefore he suffered at the hands of the other two. He had his convictions for which he suffered. Marx and Engels were both biased by their own notions and ideas, but still they firmly believed then that they were right.
Showing posts with label Facts in free Thinking. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Facts in free Thinking. Show all posts
Thursday, November 19, 2009
Facts in Free Thinking
EKKENTROS FORUM
The Matter: Report of the proceedings of the discussion held on 12-5-09 (Tuesday)
Venue: Residence of Sri K.V.Kunhikrishnan, IRS(Retd), Patikkal, Kavumbagam, tellicherry-670110
Coram: Seven members attended. Dr.abdulla and Prof Mohanan Nair could not attend as both were out of station.
Sri. K.V.Kunhikrishnan:
We had briefly touched upon this subject in our tenth anniversary proceedings but had no opportunity or facility to discuss the subject in detail.
Fact is a casualty in today’s world. A stage has come when we cannot rely on any information whatsoever that we come across in the media. They are manipulated by personal or group interests. As our Forum stands for free unbiased thinking, we have a stake in the premises based on which we think, and the premises are facts. The first requisite for free thought is the correctness of facts and a respectful commitment to facts. The other requisites are of course, clear logic, understanding the other, and willingness to change one’s opinion.
The main requirement is getting the facts. When we have direct knowledge, facts are clear and self evident. For example, when I tell you that I am old, you see straight that I am old. Nobody will deny. But when I say that I am over eighty, it can only be a reliable belief to you because it is not in your direct knowledge. There is no proof. That is why I have to produce my birth certificate to get enhanced pension on crossing the eightieth year. In day to day life we believe and rely on so many doubtful facts without evidence that the conclusions arrived at are very often widely off the mark. So, what is the remedy? Doubting anything and everything till authentic proof is obtained is no remedy, and is neither practical. But a healthy skepticism has to be maintained while having an open mind. Those who do not have an open mind cannot be unbiased.
Facts are generally elusive. It has different perspectives. There are different versions to the same set of facts. But the deliberate distortions of facts have to be recognized and discarded diligently.
Those who do not have an open mind can never find out the truth. Anybody who is wedded or committed to a dogma can never be free thinkers because he has already surrendered his mind/brain to fixed ideas. He will accept as facts only what suits his blind beliefs To avoid conflicts we need free thinkers. Future leaders have to be free thinkers who can influence the ideologists to change and be free. This is not to discount any dogma or ideology, or to say they are wrong or right. But the necessity to have open minded people in this age is very important. merely tolerating the other point of view is not enough. One must fully understand and respect the opposite point of view also. Then there cannot be any violent conflict. Facts have a most important function here.
When I was a student of sixth and seventh standard we had two Newspapers in Malayalam. The Mathrubhoomi and the Kerala Patrika. All people believed whatever was published in those papers, and rightly so because there were no contradictions or differences in facts. Facts were never disputed because non-verified facts were never published. Of course there were deliberate distortions like those by Sanjayan for the sake of humourous writings that used to appear in Kerala Patrika. The 8th column of the paper was reserved for him. What I mean is that things have changed so much that today we do not know on what to rely and what not. This is not to blame anybody, but only to highlight the pitiable helplessness of the readers.
Today if you read four newspapers you will get four versions of the same small incident. Everything seems to be distorted and politicized. It is difficult to get at the truth and form any opinion. Truth is always hidden somewhere. And even to find the truth of a very small incident you may have to appoint a commission and wait for several years! Most Newspapers can be read only as fiction not as facts.
There is a book called Flat Earth News by Nick Davies, a journalist. He cites a typical example of how a false news is sensational. A news item was published in the Fleet Street Journal saying that a five year old boy was caught by a rowdy gang and tried to kill him by hanging by neck on a tree and that he somehow managed to escape. Most of the prominent papers like the guardian, Times, Mail and Evening News went on repeating it. Newspapers did not stop there. They published features about the atrocities that have increased in the city and the terror that have been unleashed.
But it appears that the real truth was only that a twelve year old girl tried to walk a boy of five like a dog by tying a leash around his neck and in the process he got some bruises on his neck! Nick Davies compares this with the vide coverage to the news that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. According to him only ten percent of the news published by newspapers are verified and authenticated. The rest are second hand news as handed out by interested public relation people or governmental agencies.
Once something has happened it has become the past. It has become the history. Unfortunately it has become “his story’, and not my story. My story is different, I claim. Everybody claims his story, his version, to be true. Of course it depends on one’s perspective. But if there is compassion, understanding, truth will emerge. A willingness to find truth may help. Capacity for discrimination is important. For recognizing facts from fiction the only thing one can rely on is one’s own direct intuitive perception and understanding without bias or preconceived notions. Too much stress has been made on logic and reasoning, which, although have helped man in scientific development, are actually only instruments for verification of intuitively obtained ideas.
I think, an open mind and willingness to understand the other point of view can help to sift facts from fiction.
Dr. K.P.Thomas: I first thought that free thinking was unbridled thinking without caring for facts or anything else. If free thinking is on its own considered a virtue facts are of no relevance. One goes on thinking of various aspects of a case from different angles till a conclusion emerges. Then naturally the decision based on incorrect facts will also be incorrect. The importance of facts are then recognized. Sometimes in a court of law we find that opposite parties go on putting arguments in all sorts of manner giving several reasons and law points on a matter before the judges without bothering about the facts. After considering all the forceful arguments if the judge comes to a conclusion he will be committing grave errors if facts are not checked. Free Thinking is thus not merely thinking freely with abandon as you like. Fact is the most important part of free thinking.
Prof. Hay: Just consider the case of P.J.Joseph, ex-Minister. The judgment of the court is in all the Newspapers to-day. What is the actual fact? Did he actually molest the lady or not? The allegation was outraging of her modesty while traveling in the aircraft. The court says the prosecution could not produce sufficient evidence. We cannot say that he is exonerated. One can neither say that he was innocent nor that he is guilty.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: A lady will not normally come forward with such an allegation openly in public unless she did feel really outraged. What would be her purpose otherwise? There is no possibility of any political conspiracy.
Dr. Thomas: Protection for ladies in such circumstances is difficult. It is one man’s word against the other. No direct evidence is possible. The innocent, the minister or the lady, suffers the humiliation and consequential losses.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: In the film ‘Sakshi’ recently seen, an innocent is thus hanged because the truth was never revealed.
Prof. Sankarankutty: The truth should come out from the bud of fact and blossom naturally. Facts are different from truth. To-day’s fact may not be a fact tomorrow. Things change and therefore facts also change. But truth never changes. Unlike truth, facts get twisted and turned in the folds of time and space. In the legal proceedings, facts are found out and established by examining evidences and cross questioning witnesses. In the process a lot of violence may be done to facts as the judge watches on. A fact is thus temporary.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: But often we use the word fact as synonymous to truth. An established fact is considered true.
Dr. Thomas: There is the difficulty with languages. Words will have different meanings at different times and therefore meanings are never precise. Meanings and grammar are formed in the brain. American linguist Noam Chomsky has written about it.
Prof. Sankarankutty: He said that actually there is no need to teach or learn grammar. Human being knows the general principles of language by birth. It is the way of thinking later codified into a form of rules or grammatical structures for uniformity. Language itself is actually unreliable because what is expressed is not exactly what is intended or understood. Everywhere there is infection of facts. How to disinfect facts is the question.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: Time and space do affect facts. Earth was flat earlier and that was a fact then. Now it is round and that is accepted as fact.
Prof. Sankarankutty: Facts get altered in time and space but truth always remains the same.
Sri Kunhikrishnan: Mathematics as such never changes. Two plus two is always four when two, four and addition are defined.
Dr. Sadanandan: But perceptions of it do differ and change. For those who do not understand mathematics even the fact that two plus two is four need not be a fact. It can be a bigger two.
Dr. Thomas: It is a well known fact that Omar Khayam was a man who loved and wrote about wine and women. Now I understand that he was a mathematician as well. What is truth or fact?
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: He was actually a mystic. Ultimately I think, fact is a state of the mind. When a mind is settled on a matter it is accepted as a fact. But it need not be true.
Dr. Sadanandan: Truth cannot be explained. When I explain it, it becomes only ‘my explanation’ having nothing to do with the actual truth. Prophetic sayings may be slightly different because they come out with the light of truth. But when explained they become mere words. Truth when explained becomes merely versions of facts.
The Matter: Report of the proceedings of the discussion held on 12-5-09 (Tuesday)
Venue: Residence of Sri K.V.Kunhikrishnan, IRS(Retd), Patikkal, Kavumbagam, tellicherry-670110
Coram: Seven members attended. Dr.abdulla and Prof Mohanan Nair could not attend as both were out of station.
Sri. K.V.Kunhikrishnan:
We had briefly touched upon this subject in our tenth anniversary proceedings but had no opportunity or facility to discuss the subject in detail.
Fact is a casualty in today’s world. A stage has come when we cannot rely on any information whatsoever that we come across in the media. They are manipulated by personal or group interests. As our Forum stands for free unbiased thinking, we have a stake in the premises based on which we think, and the premises are facts. The first requisite for free thought is the correctness of facts and a respectful commitment to facts. The other requisites are of course, clear logic, understanding the other, and willingness to change one’s opinion.
The main requirement is getting the facts. When we have direct knowledge, facts are clear and self evident. For example, when I tell you that I am old, you see straight that I am old. Nobody will deny. But when I say that I am over eighty, it can only be a reliable belief to you because it is not in your direct knowledge. There is no proof. That is why I have to produce my birth certificate to get enhanced pension on crossing the eightieth year. In day to day life we believe and rely on so many doubtful facts without evidence that the conclusions arrived at are very often widely off the mark. So, what is the remedy? Doubting anything and everything till authentic proof is obtained is no remedy, and is neither practical. But a healthy skepticism has to be maintained while having an open mind. Those who do not have an open mind cannot be unbiased.
Facts are generally elusive. It has different perspectives. There are different versions to the same set of facts. But the deliberate distortions of facts have to be recognized and discarded diligently.
Those who do not have an open mind can never find out the truth. Anybody who is wedded or committed to a dogma can never be free thinkers because he has already surrendered his mind/brain to fixed ideas. He will accept as facts only what suits his blind beliefs To avoid conflicts we need free thinkers. Future leaders have to be free thinkers who can influence the ideologists to change and be free. This is not to discount any dogma or ideology, or to say they are wrong or right. But the necessity to have open minded people in this age is very important. merely tolerating the other point of view is not enough. One must fully understand and respect the opposite point of view also. Then there cannot be any violent conflict. Facts have a most important function here.
When I was a student of sixth and seventh standard we had two Newspapers in Malayalam. The Mathrubhoomi and the Kerala Patrika. All people believed whatever was published in those papers, and rightly so because there were no contradictions or differences in facts. Facts were never disputed because non-verified facts were never published. Of course there were deliberate distortions like those by Sanjayan for the sake of humourous writings that used to appear in Kerala Patrika. The 8th column of the paper was reserved for him. What I mean is that things have changed so much that today we do not know on what to rely and what not. This is not to blame anybody, but only to highlight the pitiable helplessness of the readers.
Today if you read four newspapers you will get four versions of the same small incident. Everything seems to be distorted and politicized. It is difficult to get at the truth and form any opinion. Truth is always hidden somewhere. And even to find the truth of a very small incident you may have to appoint a commission and wait for several years! Most Newspapers can be read only as fiction not as facts.
There is a book called Flat Earth News by Nick Davies, a journalist. He cites a typical example of how a false news is sensational. A news item was published in the Fleet Street Journal saying that a five year old boy was caught by a rowdy gang and tried to kill him by hanging by neck on a tree and that he somehow managed to escape. Most of the prominent papers like the guardian, Times, Mail and Evening News went on repeating it. Newspapers did not stop there. They published features about the atrocities that have increased in the city and the terror that have been unleashed.
But it appears that the real truth was only that a twelve year old girl tried to walk a boy of five like a dog by tying a leash around his neck and in the process he got some bruises on his neck! Nick Davies compares this with the vide coverage to the news that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. According to him only ten percent of the news published by newspapers are verified and authenticated. The rest are second hand news as handed out by interested public relation people or governmental agencies.
Once something has happened it has become the past. It has become the history. Unfortunately it has become “his story’, and not my story. My story is different, I claim. Everybody claims his story, his version, to be true. Of course it depends on one’s perspective. But if there is compassion, understanding, truth will emerge. A willingness to find truth may help. Capacity for discrimination is important. For recognizing facts from fiction the only thing one can rely on is one’s own direct intuitive perception and understanding without bias or preconceived notions. Too much stress has been made on logic and reasoning, which, although have helped man in scientific development, are actually only instruments for verification of intuitively obtained ideas.
I think, an open mind and willingness to understand the other point of view can help to sift facts from fiction.
Dr. K.P.Thomas: I first thought that free thinking was unbridled thinking without caring for facts or anything else. If free thinking is on its own considered a virtue facts are of no relevance. One goes on thinking of various aspects of a case from different angles till a conclusion emerges. Then naturally the decision based on incorrect facts will also be incorrect. The importance of facts are then recognized. Sometimes in a court of law we find that opposite parties go on putting arguments in all sorts of manner giving several reasons and law points on a matter before the judges without bothering about the facts. After considering all the forceful arguments if the judge comes to a conclusion he will be committing grave errors if facts are not checked. Free Thinking is thus not merely thinking freely with abandon as you like. Fact is the most important part of free thinking.
Prof. Hay: Just consider the case of P.J.Joseph, ex-Minister. The judgment of the court is in all the Newspapers to-day. What is the actual fact? Did he actually molest the lady or not? The allegation was outraging of her modesty while traveling in the aircraft. The court says the prosecution could not produce sufficient evidence. We cannot say that he is exonerated. One can neither say that he was innocent nor that he is guilty.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: A lady will not normally come forward with such an allegation openly in public unless she did feel really outraged. What would be her purpose otherwise? There is no possibility of any political conspiracy.
Dr. Thomas: Protection for ladies in such circumstances is difficult. It is one man’s word against the other. No direct evidence is possible. The innocent, the minister or the lady, suffers the humiliation and consequential losses.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: In the film ‘Sakshi’ recently seen, an innocent is thus hanged because the truth was never revealed.
Prof. Sankarankutty: The truth should come out from the bud of fact and blossom naturally. Facts are different from truth. To-day’s fact may not be a fact tomorrow. Things change and therefore facts also change. But truth never changes. Unlike truth, facts get twisted and turned in the folds of time and space. In the legal proceedings, facts are found out and established by examining evidences and cross questioning witnesses. In the process a lot of violence may be done to facts as the judge watches on. A fact is thus temporary.
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: But often we use the word fact as synonymous to truth. An established fact is considered true.
Dr. Thomas: There is the difficulty with languages. Words will have different meanings at different times and therefore meanings are never precise. Meanings and grammar are formed in the brain. American linguist Noam Chomsky has written about it.
Prof. Sankarankutty: He said that actually there is no need to teach or learn grammar. Human being knows the general principles of language by birth. It is the way of thinking later codified into a form of rules or grammatical structures for uniformity. Language itself is actually unreliable because what is expressed is not exactly what is intended or understood. Everywhere there is infection of facts. How to disinfect facts is the question.
Dr. Babu Ravindran: Time and space do affect facts. Earth was flat earlier and that was a fact then. Now it is round and that is accepted as fact.
Prof. Sankarankutty: Facts get altered in time and space but truth always remains the same.
Sri Kunhikrishnan: Mathematics as such never changes. Two plus two is always four when two, four and addition are defined.
Dr. Sadanandan: But perceptions of it do differ and change. For those who do not understand mathematics even the fact that two plus two is four need not be a fact. It can be a bigger two.
Dr. Thomas: It is a well known fact that Omar Khayam was a man who loved and wrote about wine and women. Now I understand that he was a mathematician as well. What is truth or fact?
Sri. Kunhikrishnan: He was actually a mystic. Ultimately I think, fact is a state of the mind. When a mind is settled on a matter it is accepted as a fact. But it need not be true.
Dr. Sadanandan: Truth cannot be explained. When I explain it, it becomes only ‘my explanation’ having nothing to do with the actual truth. Prophetic sayings may be slightly different because they come out with the light of truth. But when explained they become mere words. Truth when explained becomes merely versions of facts.
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